Pte 23845 Herbert John Todd

• Age: 32
• From: Edinburgh
• Regiment: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 20th Btn
• K.I.A Monday 3rd July 1916
• Commemorated at: Thiepval Memorial
  Panel Ref: P&F1D8B &8 C.

Herbert John Todd was Born in Edinburgh on 2^nd or 3^rd May 1884 (records vary).  His parents John Todd and Marjory Nelson Addie were married in Edinburgh in 1881.  His father was born in Fife, and his mother in Edinburgh. Herbert was the eldest of five children, all born in Edinburgh: he had a brother Louis and a sister Adelaide.  Two other children, James and Ernest, died young.  Herbert began his schooling in Edinburgh, and, after the family moved to England, at St. Luke’s, Tranmere.

The 1891 Census shows the family living at 22 Caledonian Rd, Perth, Scotland.

The father John is not listed at the address. His wife Marjory is shown as married and is aged 37, born 1854 in Midlothian, Scotland and has no occupation listed. She has three children living with her, Herbert John aged 7, born 1884 and Louis aged 6, born 1885 are both scholars and Adelaide aged 3, born 1888. She also has boarders living at the home address, John Robertson aged 19, born 1872 in Murthly, Perthshire and he employed as a stone cutter and John Milne aged 24, born 1867, a school teacher born in Perthshire.

By 1901 the family is at 6 Wycliffe Street, Birkenhead. 

The father John is aged 47, born 1854 and is employed as a hotel waiter. His wife Marjory is also aged 47. They have their three children living with them, Herbert John aged 17, employed as a publisher’s clerk, Louis is aged 16,and employed as a plumber’s apprentice and Adelaide is aged 13. They also have a boarder listed at the address Frederick Legge aged 32, born 1869 in Blandford, Dorset and he is employed as a railway collector.

On the 1911 Census the family are now living at 56 Grove Rd, Rock Ferry.

The father Johnis aged  59  and is employed as a ship steward and his wife Marjory is aged 58 with no occupation listed. They have been married for 29 years  and have had 5 childrenof which two had died. Their daughter Adelaide now aged 23is still living at home and is employed as a machine operator ata  soap works. Herbert is not listed at the address and is probably away at sea. 

From 1902 until 1912 Herbert is found on crew lists, as a steward, first aboard the “Lake Champlain”, owned by Elder Dempster, when he is 19 years old,  gives his address as 6 Wycliffe Street, Rock Ferry, and gets paid £3 a month.  By 1906, he is 22, and a steward with the Cunard Line, on the “Saxonia”, giving his address as 56 Grove Road, Rock Ferry.  He is still with Cunard in 1912, now a First Class waiter on the “Carmania”.  His father was also a ship steward, according to the 1911 census.

Herbert enlisted in Liverpool on 9^th November 1914, when he was 30 years old, as Private 23845, joining the 20^th Battalion (Pals) of The King’s Liverpool Regiment. After training locally, then at Grantham in Lincolnshire, and on Salisbury Plain, Herbert shipped to France with his battalion, arriving at Boulogne on 7^th November 1915.  In December, the 20^th Bn is sent to Bienvillers, on the Somme front.  In May the Pals battalions come out of the line and move to Abbeville for specialist training for the ‘Big Push’. On 1^st of July, the first day of the Battle of the Somme, the 20^th Bn takes its objective at Maricourt, suffering 100 casualties.  On the 2^nd the battalion was holding captured trenches and sent out two patrols to Bernafay Wood, where they captured 17 prisoners.  The battalion was shelled heavily at intervals day and night, causing casualties.  On the 3^rd the battalion held the same positions; they were shelled heavily and suffered a number of casualties (two killed and about 30 wounded).  At 8 p.m. the battalion less No.4 company took over trenches occupied by the 19^th Bn Manchester Regiment.  Casualties: Other Ranks – 4 killed, and 45 wounded.  Private Herbert Todd was one of the casualties on this day.  He was killed in action, aged 32. (Graham Maddocks shows 12 of the 20^th Bn KIA on this date.) 

Herbert's body was not recovered and his name is recorded on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing of the Somme, France. 

The Thiepval Memorial, the Memorial to the Missing of the Somme, bears the names of more than 72,000 officers and men of the United Kingdom and South African forces who died in the Somme sector before 20 March 1918 and have no known grave. Over 90% of those commemorated died between July and November 1916.

On 01st August 1932 the Prince of Wales and the President of France inaugurated the Thiepval Memorial in Picardy. The inscription reads: “Here are recorded the names of officers and men of the British Armies who fell on the Somme battlefields between July 1915 and March 1918 but to whom the fortune of war denied the known and honoured burial given to their comrades in death.”

He earned his three medals, his mother received his pension and his effects went to his mother and brother, Louis.

There is some confusion as to his date of death.  Evidently his family was informed that he had been killed on 1^st July, as they placed a notice in the Liverpool  Daily Post on 18^thJuly 1916: 

“July 1 killed in action, in France, Herbert John Todd (Pals), dearly loved son of Mrs. Todd, 56 Grove Road, Rock Ferry.” 

Reported killed in the Liverpool Daily Post 2nd Aug 1916 -

Todd, 23845, H.J. (Rock Ferry)

Soldiers’ Effects, as well as De Ruvingny’s roll of Honour, show his date of death as 1^st July.  CWGC have 3^rd July as his date of death.

De Ruvigny's Roll of Honour

TODD, HERBERT JOHN, Private No. 23845, 20th Service Battn, the King's Liverpool Regiment; son of the late John Todd, restaurant manager, by his wife Marjorie (56 Grove Road, Rock Ferry) daughter of Andrew Addie; born Edinburgh 3rd of May 1884; educated there and and St Luke's, Tranmere; was employed as a ship steward and enlisted 9th November 1914; served with the Expeditionary Force in France and Flanders from November 1915 and was killed in action at the Battle of the Somme 1, July 1916; buried near the trenches where he fell; unmarried.

Soldiers Effects to mother Mrs Marjory N. Todd and brother Louis Evan and pension to his mother.

Herbert is commemorated on the following Memorials:

St. Peter’s Church, Rock Ferry.

Scottish National War Memorial

His father John died March 1913 aged 59 and his mother Marjory passed away june 1924 aged 70. 

We currently have no further information on Herbert John Todd, If you have or know someone who may be able to add to the history of this soldier, please contact us.