Pte 57971 Frederick John Winn

• Age: 29
• From: London
• Regiment: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 17th Btn
• K.I.A Wednesday 1st August 1917
• Commemorated at: Menin Gate Memorial
  Panel Ref: Panel 4 & 6

Frederick John Winn was born on 24th April 1888 in Poplar, East London, the son of Matthew Edward  Winn and his wife Mary Maria (nee Sargeant). His parents married in 1885. Frederick was baptised on 30th September at St Peter’s Church, London Docks 

The 1891 Census finds the family living at 33 Ordnance Road, West Ham, Essex.

Parents Matthew Edward, aged 27 and a life insurance agent born in London St. Georges, and Mary Maria aged 26 born in Stepney, London with children Florence 5 born London Mile End, Frederick J. 2 born London Bromley, and Sidney 3 months born Essex Canning Town.

By the time of the 1901 Census the family have moved to 75 Carlton Vale, Willesden, Middlesex.

Parents Matthew Edward 37 a bus conductor, and Mary Maria 36, with children, Florence 15, Frederick 12, Sidney 10, Herbert 6 and Bessie 3 Winn.

Frederick started his employment for the London General Omnibus Company at Cricklewood bus garage on 28th September 1909, on the 1911 Census he is listed as an omnibus conductor, his father is a ticket inspector.

The 1911 Census finds the family living at 115 Cambridge Road, Kilburn, Middlesex.

Parents Matthew Edward 47 a ticket inspector, and Mary Maria 46. THey have been married for 25 years and have had 7 children five of whom have survived. Those listed at home are; Frederick John 22 omnibus conductor, Sidney Charles 20 messenger, Herbert Francis 16 errand boy, and Bessie Maud 13 at school.

On the 3rd March 1916 Frederick joined the 25th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (Cyclist) at Fulham House, Fulham Road, his Army Service Number was 3474.

He married Alice Rose Murrell at St Augustine's Church, Paddington on 01st November 1916, giving his occupation as a soldier in the Army Cyclist Corps, address 88 Carlton Vale. They had a son Frederick James Matthew born in April 1917.

On 17^th February 1917 Frederick was transferred and joined ‘A’ Company of the 17th Battalion, The Kings Liverpool Regiment.

Frederick was Killed in action on 01st August 1917 at the Third Battle of Passchendaele, he was 29 years old.

Extracted from 17 KLR War Diary

THE BATTLE OF PILCKEM RIDGE 31 July -2 August

Chateau Segard
30/7/17
8.30am. Battalion moved to Promenade Trench at the south side of Zillebeke Lake. No casualties were sustained and the Battalion assembled in accordance with orders.

Promenade Trench
31/7/17
5:15am Battalion moved in order 'A', 'B','C'. 'D' Companies to the Forward Assembly. Position at MAPLE COPSE, where 2/Lieut. N. HENRY MC had made arrangements for marking position with screw pickets and sandbags. The Battalion came under desultory shell fire at ZILLEBEKE. This increased in severity in the neighbourhood of MAPLE COPSE, and the RSM was wounded, Signalling Sergt, JD RIGBY killed, also 3 signallers and a Battalion Runner put out of action. On arrival at Forward Assembly Position, 2/Lieut. CL CHILDS (Left Flank Guide) was wounded and 2/Lieut. C BASSINGHAM took his place.
7:50am BLUE LINE reported captured. Battalion moved forward in artillery formation of half company columns on a bearing of 104 degrees magnetic, with orders to halt just West of STIRLING CASTLE. During the advance the Battalion was shelled with Field Guns, 5.9" and 8" Howitzers, and suffered casualties from machine gun fire.
On arrival at STIRLING CASTLE at 8:40am, it was reported that our troops were held up between BLUE and BLACK lines. Seeing that the programme of operations was not being carried to time, and that every minute of delay caused a larger gap between the leading waves and the barrage, the Commanding Officer ordered the Battalion forward with the idea of reinforcing and carrying forward the leading troops into the BLACK line. The information as to the leading troops was erroneous and, on crossing the crest of the STIRLING CASTLE Ridge, it was discovered that no British troops were in front of this battalion in spite of the fact that the barrage was some four hours away ahead of the 17th Battn. KLR, and in spite of heavy Machine Gun, Rifle and shell fire, the Battalion pushed on until the left, (C Company, Capt. GG Rylands), rested on CLAPHAM JUNCTION. There the advance was stopped. The Battalion dug itself in and held on to the ground gained in spite of very severe shelling from Field Guns and 5.9" Howitzers. During this shelling the following casualties were sustained: Lieut. FR DIMOND. (OC B Company) and 2/Lieut. EN GOLDSPINK (A Company) were killed together with 35 other Ranks. 2/Lieut. C BASSINGHAM. (D Company) and  2/Lieut. LEL YORK. (D coy) wounded. 120 other ranks wounded. (A large proportion of N.C.O.’s were among the above casualties.)

1/8/17
Battalion holding ground gained, and consolidating the Front line and Battalion HQ continuously under enemy shell fire.
 
2/8/17
Battalion consolidating. Enemy shelling whole of day.
 
3/8/17
Battalion consolidating. Enemy shelling whole of day. At 10:30pm Battalion relieved by 7th Royal West Kents and moved to Zillebeke Lake where hot food was provided. The following casualties were sustained during the period 1/8/17-3/8/17:-
Killed Captain JH Joseph and 17 other ranks
Wounded 2nd Lt E Davies and 74 other ranks
Missing 12 other ranks

The following has been transcribed from the Regimental History by Everard Wyrall:-

Meanwhile the two battalions of the 79th Brigade detailed to go through and capture the Green Line had, in accordance with orders, moved forward, i.e., 20th King's on the right, 17th King's on the left, to the Promenade on the previous night. Between 5 and 5.20a.m. on the 31st both battalions marched to forward positions of assembly immediately east of Maple Copse, where they were heavily shelled and suffered a good many casualties.
At 7.50 a.m. they moved forward in artillery formation, all the while under heavy hostile shell fire, which by now had assumed the character of a heavy barrage.
On approaching the Blue Line it was apparent that the troops in front (21st and 90th Brigades) were held up and were unable to advance beyond it.
A message, sent back from the 20th King's to Brigade Headquarters, stated that the Black Line had not been taken and that companies were digging in on and consolidating a line running south from Stirling Castle. At this period touch had been established with the 17th King's on the left. A few minutes later a message from Brigade Headquarters stated that the barrage was being brought back on Inverness Copse and Jargon and Jap Trenches at 10.20 a.m. and that the 17th and 20th King's were to co operate in a further attack. It was obvious that, as the message was not received until 11.6 a.m. and the barrage was ordered for 10.20 a.m., it came too late for compliance.
No further movement was made that day. There is among the documents of the 20th King's a message from the O.C. (covered plentifully with the mud of Flanders) to Brigade Headquarters which says: "Front line now roughly along road south of Clapham Junction . . . Enemy machine guns very active and any movement in forward positions is at once stopped by machine gun fire. . . Without careful artillery preparation further attacks will be useless. I am therefore holding on to present line."
The 17th King's had similarly come under heavy shell fire when in the neighbourhood of Maple Cross, losing the Regimental Sergt. Major (who was wounded), and Signalling Sergt. J. D. Rigg (killed). Three signallers and a battalion runner were also wounded. On the forward assembly position Second-Lieut. C. L. Childs was wounded.
The battalion, on arrival at Stirling Castle at 8.40 a.m., received reports that the troops were held up behind the Blue and. Black Lines, and the C.O. ordered his men forward with the idea of reinforcing and carrying forward the leading troops to the Black Line.
But it was only when crossing the Stirling Castle Ridge that the 17th King's discovered that no British troops were in front of them. However, they pushed on until the left flank rested on Clapham Junction. There the advance was stopped, companies digging in and holding on to the ground in spite of very heavy shelling from the enemy's forward guns and howitzers. During this shelling Lieut. F. R. Dimond, Second Lieut. E. N. Godspink and thirty five other ranks were killed, while Second Lieuts. C. Bassinghem, L. E. L. York, and 120 other ranks were wounded.

Frederick John was reported wounded in the Weekly Casualty List 18th September 1917

His body was not recovered or was subsequently lost as he is commemorated on The Menin Gate Memorial (Panel 4 and 6) Ypres, Belgium.

The site of the Menin Gate was chosen because of the hundreds of thousands of men who passed through it on their way to the battlefields. It commemorates casualties from the forces of Australia, Canada, India, South Africa and United Kingdom who died in the Salient. In the case of United Kingdom casualties, only those prior 16 August 1917 (with some exceptions). United Kingdom and New Zealand servicemen who died after that date are named on the memorial at Tyne Cot, a site which marks the furthest point reached by Commonwealth forces in Belgium until nearly the end of the war. New Zealand casualties that died prior to 16 August 1917 are commemorated on memorials at Buttes New British Cemetery and Messines Ridge British Cemetery.

The YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL now bears the names of more than 54,000 officers and men whose graves are not known. The memorial, designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield with sculpture by Sir William Reid-Dick, was unveiled by Lord Plumer on 24 July 1927.

He left behind his wife Alice and their new son born a few months earlier in April.

His brothers Sidney Charles, Pte 22076 3/Middlesex Regt,  and Herbert Francis, Pte 5147 23/London Regt and SWB, both served in the war and returned home.

Soldiers Effects and Pension to widow Alice R. and child Frederick James Matthew.

Alice remarried in 1921 to John W. Whiting and had one more son Norman S. born in 1930.

His mother died in the September quarter of 1934, aged 69.

His father died in the June quarter of 1936 aged 72.

His widow died in 1975, her death was registered in Lewisham. Her date of birth on the register is given as 06th June 1894.  

On the 08th August 2014 Frederick was remembered on the Tower of London Roll of Honour.

In October 2018 Frederick was part of a project run by London Transport Museum remembering the lives of staff that were involved in the First World War.

Grateful thanks are extended to Amanda Winn who has provided the photograph, research and much of the biography contained herein.

We currently have no further information on Frederick John Winn, If you have or know someone who may be able to add to the history of this soldier, please contact us.