1885 - 1916
CPL David Wallace Crawford
1887 - 1916
Lce-Corpl John Joseph Nickle
1894 - 1916
Pte 17911 Morton Neill
1897 - 1916
Lieut Edward Stanley Ashcroft
1883 - 1918
Pte 22878 Herbert Waine
- Age: 19
- From: Liverpool
- Regiment: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 20th Btn
- K.I.A Thursday 12th October 1916
- Commemorated at: Thiepval Memorial
Panel Ref: P&F1D8B &8 C.
Herbert Waine was born in 1897 in Liverpool and was the son of William Waine and his wife Alice (nee Marsden) who were married on the 24th February 1872 at Manchester Cathedral. William was a 23 year old furrier of 76 Wilmott St, Hulme, father Septimus, whilst Alice was 19 of 20 Lower Moss Lane, Hulme, father Matthew.
Herbert was baptised on the 27th Feb 1897 at St Nathaniel's Church, Edge Hill, parents address 34 Noel Street, Liverpool, his father was a furrier.
His father, William, died aged 49 shortly after his son Herbert was born, he was buried on 01st September 1897 in Toxteth Cemetery.
The 1901 Census shows the family living at 34 Noel St, Liverpool. Widowed mother Alice is aged 46, born in Bolton. She has six children: born Manchester are Frederick aged 23, a barman, Thomas aged 22, a blacksmiths labourer, John aged 20, a boilermaker for angle smith, born Liverpool are Rachel aged 14, Robert aged 9, and Herbert aged 4. They have a boarder John J. Dodd aged 21.
His mother remarried in 1907 to Dennis O’Brien, who was born in Cork, Ireland in 1850.
The 1911 Census shows the family living at 34 Noel St, Liverpool. His step-father Dennis is not present, his mother Alice O’Brien is aged 56, born 1854 in Bolton. She has five children in the household; John aged 30, born 1881 occupation anglesmith, born in Manchester, the following children were all born in Liverpool; Rachel aged 25, born 1886 domestic cook, Hannah aged 21, born 1890 telephone operator, Robert aged 19, born 1892 apprentice boilermaker and Herbert aged 14, born 1897 an errand boy.
His service records have survived and show Herbert was aged 18 years and 11 months when he enlisted in Liverpool on 09th November 1914. He joined the 20th Battalion of The King’s Liverpool Regiment as Private No 22878. He lists his occupation as boilermaker andwas described as being 5 foot five and ¾ inches tall, weighs 127lbs, with a 37" chest and had a fresh complexion with grey eyes and light brown hair. He stated his religion as Church of England.
Formed in November 1914 the 20th Battalion were originally billeted at He arrived in France on 7th November 1915.Tournament Hall, Knotty Ash before on 29th January 1915 they moved to the hutted accommodation purposely built at Lord Derby’s estate at Knowsley Hall. On 30th April 1915 the 20th Battalion alongside the other three Pals battalions left Liverpool via Prescot Station for further training at Belton Park, Grantham. They remained here until September 1915 when they reached Larkhill Camp on Salisbury Plain.
He sailed to France with his Battalion on the 07th November 1915.
His records show
03/02/16: Admitted to hospital with an Ulcer.
20/02/16: Discharged to duty.
23/02/16: Joined from Hospital at Etaples.
04/03/16: Joined unit in the Field.
24/04/16: Attached to 13th Corps Mortar Battery.
There is an Army memorandum dated 20th January 1916 and 30th September 1916 where Herbert is due a sum of money from the estate of the late Private Thomas Harvey 6068 1st Battalion Wiltshire Regiment.
(Thomas Harvey, aged 36, Died 27/10/1914, buried Le Touret Memorial, France. He was the son of Mr. O'Brien and Mrs. D. O'Brien, of 34 Noel St, Lodge Lane, Liverpool).
Herbert was killed in action on the 12th October 1916, aged 19, during the Battle of the Transloy Ridges which was part of the ongoing Somme Offensive.
According to the 20th Bn War Diary, on 10th October 1916 the battalion marched from Dernancourt via Mametz to Bazentin Le Grand where it bivouacked for the night. The next day the battalion moved up to site for assembly trenches, arriving about 11 p.m., where it dug in two good trenches, Nos.1 and 2 Coys front and Nos.3 and 4 Coys in rear.
From the War Diary:
Near Eaucourt L’Abbaye. 12/10/1916. The 4th British and 6th French armies continued the attack. Zero 2.5 p.m. The whole XVth Corps attacked […] The attack of 89th Inf Bde was carried out with 2nd Bn Bedf Regt on right, 17th Bn KLR on left, 20th Bn KLR in support, 19th Bn KLR in reserve. Battalions attacked in four waves. On the departure of the attacking battalions Nos. 1 and 2 companies advanced, each in two waves, to garrison the front line trench vacated by 2nd Bn Bedf Regt on right and 17th KLR on left. On Nos 1 and 2 Coys vacating front assembly trench, it was occupied by two platoons of Nos. 3 and 4 Coys respectively, from rear assembly trench. As the assaulting waves left their trenches they were met by intense machine gun fire, especially on our left. The enemy also opened heavy barrages on our front support and assembly trenches. […] Capt. H. Beckett, commanding No.1 company, reached the front line with few casualties, but Lieut R.D. Paterson leading No.2 company was killed. His company also had few casualties. The assaulting battalions were held up by very heavy machine gun fire, and made little progress. […] At 4.20 p.m. two platoons, No.4 Coy, under Cpl Brighouse, were sent up to reinforce the left, and No.3 Coy under Cpl Sutton followed at 4.45 p.m. Battalion HQ moved up to front line at 4.55 and remaining two platoons of No.4 Coy moved up to join Cpl Brighouse.
Casualties during action:
Officers – Killed Lieut. R.D. Paterson, 2nd Lieut G.L. Grennan, Wounded – 2nd Lieuts A.E. Griffin, L.E. Mclean Hayes, C. Buttemer, Wounded Cpl g. Brighouse.
Other Ranks killed – 20.
It had rained incessantly at the beginning of October 1916 and the ground was full of mud. In his book ‘The Liverpool Pals’ Graham Maddocks describes the day Herbert was killed.
It was obvious that the Germans knew an attack was coming and from which direction it would be mounted. On the evening of the 11th the 20th Battalion moved up the line and dug two deep assembly trenches behind the 17th Battalion’s position for the attack the next day. The 19th Battalion also moved into its reserve positions known as Flers Trench. Although the rain has stopped, the ground was like a morass, with all the natural vegetation destroyed, it was difficult to tell exactly where the objectives lay. On the afternoon of the 12th at exactly 2.05pm, the attack began along the whole Corps line, covered by the local batteries of the Royal Field Artillery which still had line of sight. As the whistles blew, the 17th Battalion left its trenches to move forwards, at the same time No.1 and 2 Companies of the 20th Battalion moved forward and occupied the trenches vacated by the 17th. As they too went over the top, No.3 and 4 Companies took their place and waited in their turn to follow. No.2 and 3 Companies of the 19th Battalion moved up to occupy the assembly trenches dug the previous night by the 20th.
As soon as the attacking waves left their trenches the enemy artillery began to register on them and at the same time the defending infantry commenced a murderous rain of fire. Those German regiments were trained and experienced soldiers, well dug in on high ground, and for the most part, looking out on uncut wire. As such it was virtually impossible for them to miss the City Battalion men struggling to advance in the mud towards them.
Brigadier-General F.C.Stanley wrote that the Battalions were also suffering casualties due to the short shooting of the British heavy artillery fire. “I know from practical experience that they were our own guns which were shooting, and which were causing us quite a considerable number of casualties. The fault lay at that time from the fact that the heavy gunners would not send their FOO’s (Forward Observation Officers) far enough forward, but were content to observe us from right back”
Some ground was gained that day, about 150 yards, the 20th Battalion were not relieved until 24 hours later causing the men to endure another day and night in the front line trench.
His death was reported in the Liverpool Echo on 03rd November 1916:
BROTHERS KILLED.
Private Herbert Waine K.L.R., who was nineteen years of age, has been killed action. He was the youngest son of Mr. and Mrs. Waine, 34, Noel-street. Previously to joining the army he was apprentice to Messrs. Fawcett and Preston's. His elder brother, Private Thomas Waine (36), was killed early in the war. [They mean step-brother Thomas Harvey]
Herbert's body was not recovered or was subsequently lost as he has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial, France.
The Thiepval Memorial, the Memorial to the Missing of the Somme, bears the names of more than 72,000 officers and men of the United Kingdom and South African forces who died in the Somme sector before 20 March 1918 and have no known grave. Over 90% of those commemorated died between July and November 1916.
On 01st August 1932 the Prince of Wales and the President of France inaugurated the Thiepval Memorial in Picardy. The inscription reads: “Here are recorded the names of officers and men of the British Armies who fell on the Somme battlefields between July 1915 and March 1918 but to whom the fortune of war denied the known and honoured burial given to their comrades in death.”
His mother received his personal effects which consisted of 1 disc, letters and two photos on 1st May, 1917.
Soldiers Effects to mother Alice O’Brien, sisters Mary and Elizabeth A., brother Thomas was a redirect to Elizabeth, Pension to mother Alice.
Herbert is also commemorated on the following War Memorials:
Hall of Remembrance, Liverpool Town Hall, Panel 33 Right
Liverpool Presbytery, Earle Road, Edge Hill
Lodge Lane Methodist Church, Toxteth.
His step-father died, aged 73, in the September quarter of 1924.
His mother died, aged 79, and was buried in Toxteth Cemetery on the 21st October 1931.
We currently have no further information on Herbert Waine, If you have or know someone who may be able to add to the history of this soldier, please contact us.
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